| Source : http://mt.m2day.org/2008/content/view/16815/84/ Flogging a dead horse | | | |
| Posted by admin | |
| Sunday, 11 January 2009 14:38 |
It is a very clever long-term strategy that PAS is adopting. It knows that just on Malay support alone it can win some seats, or even states. But it can never form the federal government. To form the federal government it needs the support of the Chinese, the Indians, and the natives of Sabah and Sarawak.
NO HOLDS BARRED
Raja Petra Kamarudin
This is what The Star said today in its column The Star Says………..
Voters’ right to know what’s on offer
THE issue of hudud laws in an Islamic state has acquired greater relevance since unprecedented Opposition gains last March. But instead of greater clarity and understanding, things have become murkier.
The differences have exposed fissures in Pakatan Rakyat, as its squabbling leaders generate more heat than light. To help clear the confusion, let us be clear on some main points.
First, Malaysia is not and was never meant to be an Islamic state. It is a Muslim-majority nation with Islam as its official religion, and freedom of religion is enshrined in the Constitution.
An Islamic state is ruled by Islamic scholars implementing Islamic law as the nation’s sole or principal legal system. If Malaysia were already an Islamic state, there would be no need to make it one, nor any need for further debate.
Second, a nation’s laws affect all who live in it regardless of faith. Muslims may be directly affected by hudud laws, but non-Muslims would at least be indirectly affected by sharing geographical and social spaces in the country. Even foreign workers and tourists must observe a nation’s laws, and cannot claim immunity just because they are not citizens.
To deny such realities is to be so naive as to be unfit for public office, or so deceitful as to deserve no electoral support.
Third, PAS and its Pakatan partners must fully inform the public about what hudud precisely entails, after agreeing on that themselves, if they respect the democratic principle of citizens making informed choices at elections. Anything less is tantamount to seeking power by stealth.
By bickering over the subject and then fudging it, PR leaders have abdicated their responsibility to those they claim to serve and represent: Malaysians. And yet their disagreement is no surprise, since a third of Pakatan insists on hudud, another third on rejecting it while the other third just hopes the controversy will go away.
But it is not going to go away, particularly when PAS is bent on actualising hudud when it wins federal power. This is all the more reason for greater clarity and transparency now, so that people can know what is being sold to them.
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Yes, that was what The Star said today in its editorial column. And we must remember that The Star is owned by MCA and is therefore a Barisan Nasional mouthpiece -- just like the other Umno-owned mainstream newspapers and television stations like Berita Hairan, Utusan Meloya, the Dire Straits Times, TV Tiga-suku and whatnot.
Umno does not have any issues to use in the Kuala Terengganu by-election. The PAS candidate is a five-term State Assemblyman and has no ‘baggage’ like the Umno candidate, Wan Farid Wan Salleh. Even when PAS got wiped out in 2004 and all the top PAS leaders hit the dust, Wahid Endut still won the Wakaf Mempelam state seat. This shows Wahid is practically invincible and can win even when his party got massacred. Therefore, we can assume he is well liked by his constituents.
In Terengganu, it is partly about the party and, sometimes, mainly about the personalities. For example, the late Member of Parliament for Kuala Terengganu, Razali Ismail, garnered the PAS votes even though he was an Umno candidate. His wife (now widow, of course) and the wife of the one-time PAS State Assemblyman for Bandar, Azmi Lope, are sisters. So, based on family ties, those PAS supporters aligned to Azmi voted for Razali. Personality came before party.
Azmi Lope won the ‘Chinese’ Bandar state seat in 1999. Earlier, in 1990, Ustaz Harun Jusoh, also from PAS, won that seat. In 2008, the Bandar seat went to MCA. And although the other three state seats -- Wakaf Mempelam, Batu Burok and Ladang -- were won by PAS, the Parliament seat of Kuala Terengganu went to Umno, basically because of the ‘Chinese’ Bandar seat. Therefore, it was the Chinese who gave Razali Ismail the win, no doubt about that.
The Bandar seat will also be the determining factor in the 17 January 2009 by-election. If PAS can’t win the votes from the Bandar constituency, even if they can retain their votes from Wakaf Mempelam, Batu Burok and Ladang, they will have a hard time trying to win the Kuala Terengganu parliamentary constituency. Say what you like, the Chinese are going to determine who will be the next Member of Parliament for Kuala Terengganu, not the Malays.
So, what else can MCA do other than flog a dead horse called Hudud? This is the only issue they can use. There are no personal issues against the candidate. He is spotless, squeaky clean, and a likeable character. Running him down is a non-starter. In fact, it is counter-productive and can backfire badly. So they have to run down his party instead. And the Hudud issue is the only ‘weapon’ they have in which they can use against his party.
But why are MCA and The Star the ones who are playing up the Hudud issue? The Barisan Nasional candidate is from Umno, not MCA. Should not Umno instead be playing up the issue? Surely the Chinese would believe Umno more than MCA -- seeing that the Umno chaps are ‘fellow-Muslims’ while the MCA chaps are ‘kafirs’, and therefore would understandably be ‘anti-Islam’. If the ‘fellow-Muslims’ from Umno whack the Islamic State and Islamic laws, it would be more credible than coming from the ‘kafir’ Chinese of MCA.
Yes, Umno demands that PKR state its stand on the Islamic State and Hudud. MCA, in turn, demands the same thing from DAP. But while they demand this from PKR and DAP, Umno and MCA are maintaining a deafening silence as to their stands on the Islamic State and Islamic laws.
Umno knows that if they were to openly oppose the Islamic State and Hudud, while this may sway the Chinese voters, it would, however, antagonise the Malay voters. Not everyone supports PAS. At best about 40% of the voters support the opposition. The ruling party would have about 40% support as well. Then there are the 20% uncommitted or atas pagar (fence sitters) voters. Their task would be to win the hearts and minds of the 20% fence sitters, half of them Chinese and the other half Malay.
If Umno were to whack the Islamic State and Hudud, they may successfully win over half the 10% fence sitters, the Chinese, but they will send the other half, the Malays, into the arms of the opposition -- plus some of the 40% ‘committed’ may also swing to the opposition as well.
The Chinese represent only 11% of the voters in Kuala Terengganu. Therefore, 89% are Malays. 60% of the Chinese voted for Barisan Nasional in the last election while 40% went to the opposition. If Umno tries to sway the Chinese by using the Islamic State and Hudud issue, they may get another 10% of the Chinese votes, but they will lose much more in terms of Malay votes. Why swing 1 Chinese vote and lose 10 Malay votes in the process? The nett effect will be lesser votes for Barisan Nasional.
So, Umno is steering clear of the Islamic State and Hudud issue. It does not dare state that it is opposed to the Islamic State and Hudud -- as this can be interpreted as Umno is opposed to Islam. It therefore leaves this matter to MCA and The Star to handle. Then it would be the Chinese ‘kafirs’ from MCA and not the Muslims from Umno who are ‘anti-Islam’.
But MCA would not dare do anything so sensitive if not sanctioned by Umno. What if the Muslim NGOs suddenly organise a demonstration to protest MCA’s perceived opposition to Islam? Will Umno agree with the Muslim NGO’s or will it instead stand behind MCA? If Umno does not back MCA, then they would be leaving the Chinese party out to hang. But to back MCA would only give an impression that Umno is also anti-Islam.
It is actually quite a gamble that Umno is playing. Sure, MCA and The Star may yet be able to sway the Chinese on the Islamic State and Hudud issue. But it runs the risk of losing even more Malay support. Thus far, however, PAS has not played up this issue or tried to point out that MCA, the sleeping partner and nominee of Umno, is anti-Islam and therefore this makes Umno anti-Islam as well -- since no way MCA can whack Islam without Umno saying so.
PAS would prefer to not use these issues as election fuel although they can if they wish to. PAS knows it can go to town on the matter and gain much mileage with the issue. Last night's arrest of 21 anti-Israel protestors in Kuala Lumpur is one case in point and can 'prove' that Umno is anti-Islam. But PAS would rather win the election with Chinese support. And they are going to great pains to win the hearts and minds of the Chinese rather than by demonising Umno with regards to its stand on Islam.
PAS is looking at things beyond just the Kuala Terengganu by-election. No doubt it wants to win this by-election. But it wants to do so with Chinese support rather than just Malay support and with the Chinese voting against them. 11% is not really that large. If PAS campaigns on the platform that Umno is anti-Islam it can win more Malay votes than the Chinese votes it loses. But in the long-term PAS would lose. If it can win the Kuala Terengganu parliamentary seat with Chinese support, the message PAS can send to the rest of the country would be: if the Kuala Terengganu Chinese who know PAS better can support the party, why not the Chinese from the rest of the country?
It is a very clever long-term strategy that PAS is adopting. It knows that just on Malay support alone it can win some seats, or even states. But it can never form the federal government. To form the federal government it needs the support of the Chinese, the Indians, and the natives of Sabah and Sarawak. Therefore it has to first win the Kuala Terengganu parliament seat, which has only 11% Chinese and Indian voters, before talking about the rest of the country, which has a higher percentage of non-Malay voters.
It is risky for PAS, of course, because it is banking on non-Muslim support to win when it can increase its support from the Muslim voters by playing up the ‘Umno is anti-Islam’ issue. But if PAS wishes to look beyond Kuala Terengganu, then this has to be the way to go. PAS needs to win the trust of the non-Malays. And Kuala Terengganu is a good place to start. And if it succeeds in Kuala Terengganu on 17 January 2009, then it can begin to set it sights on taking PAS to areas where the Chinese are even more the kingmaker. And thus far it appears like this may happen.
Comments (55)Add Comment
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written by by2020, January 11, 2009 15:17:42
Yes, we should start thinking ourselves as Malaysian first, race second! Send UMNO into South China Sea...
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written by Angela Ooi, January 11, 2009 15:22:57
Pas prefers to engage and 'INCLUDE' the Chinese while umno "EXCLUDES' the Chinese and has been treating us with utter contempt. Time to shove them into the South China Sea and let the monsoon winds take them to Timbuktu asap.
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written by KingSolomon, January 11, 2009 15:30:43
It has been proven time and again that BeEnd strongly believes that the malays voters can be bribed. The many more seats that fell into the hands of AMNO instead of PAS do go to show that there is some truth in this belief.
The malay voters appear to vote for power, ketuanan melayu, special priviledges and an empty dream instead of good islamic values as proposed by PAS. Hope they wake up now and vote for PR / PAS now.
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written by tmf, January 11, 2009 15:31:34
Put Hudud aside, promise the BN that PR will address the issue once the Federal Government is in the hand of PR. Meanwhile, ask as louad as possible what is the view of BN and each and everyone of its component parties, especially MCA and Gerakan about their views on the rampant corruption in the Administration, to begin with.
Why should we worry about Hudud which is currently academic instead of the already exisiting rampant corruption, failed education, racial discrimination, indisciplined police force, questionable judiciary, nepotism, cronyism and the long list of crimes commited by the BN government?
Enough and I say it again, ENOUGH!
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written by yapsir, January 11, 2009 15:35:28
Just let BN be the end!
Hidup rakyat.
Thank you RPK!
Let the be-end RIP(rest in peace!)
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written by miwaki, January 11, 2009 15:35:56
The uninformed and ill-informed chinese are worried about hudud but these same people are definitely more worried about MCA as it is under the control of UMNO.PAS never ask chinese to go back to China,PAS never tell the chinese to leave this counrty if they are not happy with the government,PAS never suggest to the government to arrest anybody under ISA,PAS never propose to government to demolish any place of worships.
In short,PAS is not belligent as PAS is a peaceful party unlike UMNO which is belligent such as waving of dagger and threatened to bath it in someone's blood.Only certain species of chinese will vote for UMNO,MCA and other mosquito party of the coalition.
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written by Ray, January 11, 2009 15:37:55
Most of the Terengganu chinese is going for the green colour. They are fed up with the non performing MCA. MCA talks alot but no action.
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written by ahmadneil, January 11, 2009 16:02:31
Dear Pete,
The PKR dinner on the 9 Jan 2009 have seen alot of dayaks and the chinese joining PR.I thought you will be going with Anwar and Selangor Menteri Besar.If you did,you would have seen the crowds.Massive traffic jams and crowds surging into the tents to hear PKR and DAP leaders speak.Ten of thousands application to join PKR and DAP were accepted during the dinner.
Right, Sarawak will be the next state that will be joining PR.
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written by ahmadneil, January 11, 2009 16:14:20
MCA have no more cards.They don't represent the chinese anymore.It's only the DAP, who will be taking over from the MCA.I just don't know what is MCA doing in KT.Maybe scouting around for a piece of land to built big mansion like those own by crooks.
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written by Loh, January 11, 2009 16:25:21
The Chinese in Malaysia, and Trengganu in particular should realise that PAS is religious, but UMNO politicises religion. That all religions are meant to be good for the society, and fair to all human beings, including those who are outside the religion. Deadbody snatches performed by the departments under UMNO's control would not happen when PAS is in control. Only when UMNO is dethroned would religion serves its sigle religious purposes, and not utilised for political gains. Malaysians would then not be divided by religion as a foundation for division by race.
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written by tmf, January 11, 2009 16:27:08
Pas can easily defeat UMNO by pointing out the massive corruption within UMNO, destructive racial discrimination, abuse of power, abuse of police force, bias judiciary, long list of draconian law and many other real failure of UMNO.
There is no need to prove that Pas is more Islamic or UMNO is kafir. That is a clear taken and long been well understood.
Take KT we must! Take KT we shall! The utterly corrupt and irresponsible BN administration must be taken down!
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written by ASK4u, January 11, 2009 16:37:36
Get DAP to counter MCA-STAR. Than it's "Kafir vs Kafir". PAS won't be blamed. DAP may need to be on the stand-by assisting PAS to secure Chinese votes because this Hudud issue may get uglier as the e-date draws closer.
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written by Milo, January 11, 2009 16:40:31
The star's article did present many valid points on the hudud and Islamic State issue that are of concern to Malaysians. But this whole Islamic tinggy merely stays as a point of contention within PR and those who do not support those ideas. By all accounts, this is not the most pressing issue as it is not something that is already in-force. All the concerns expressed are merely to "make clear" to PAS where we stand in respect of the issue. However, for UMNO, everything about them is clear to us. UMNO has come to represent everything that we DON'T want as a nation. Hence, there is every reason for the non-muslims to vote PAS rather than UMNO in KT. And remember that UMNO has already unfairly imposed many "Islamic ways" against non-muslims. The multiple body snatching incidents and the forceful demolishing of hindu temples are just some examples.
So people, vote PAS in KT!
P/S: For those PR supporters (especially the muslims) who are not concern of the Islamic State Issue, please show that you have the good sense not to hammer away at those on the same side who are concern. If you are hard headed, arrogant and insensitive to those who stand with you just because their concerns are not your concerns, then you are merely exhibiting the BN behaviour. If you turn these people away, many of whom are sensible and influencial people, it may be a heavy price to pay in the next election. Don't make the same mistake the UMNO-led BN made!
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written by kl_wong, January 11, 2009 16:43:22
For me, I want to stop those corrrupted BN and bring them to justice!
But the justice also need to be corrected first !
Thus this all because of these Bangsat Negara are misabusing the power in their hands which they think they are above the laws.
Why would a chinese or an indian afraid of Hudud Law if you are clean and good?
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written by hellosunshine, January 11, 2009 17:19:17
Excuse me, I am all for the opposition to BN but I disagree with RPK when he said that to be anti-hudud means being anti-Islam. You can make all those calculations you want but anything can happen when PAS, UMNO and PKR muslims make a pact. Anything can happen in the future and it's better to make their stand known.
Karpal Singh is right to voice DAP's concern on hudud and PAS has not officially made their stand to the rakyat.
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written by clarity, January 11, 2009 17:20:16
People of KY. Please let me remind you in case you forgot what happened when you voted for BN in the last election. Yes, the price of fuel shot up. Not slowly but all at once until everybody curse and swear. Even now you must be choking everytime you eat. All other prices are still going up. Not or not?
Then the Trengganu state councillors said since you gave us the mandate we'll treat ourselves to Mercedes. True or not? But to go with the Mecedes must have plenty of money. So corruption that does not benefit you e.g. monsoon cup Do the fishermaen catch more fish? Crystal mosque, sea wall etc. In all these they make millions and how did it benefit you. True or not? Don't be fooled again. Too much is too much. Tahan sama dia. Vote for PAS. Yahoo!!
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written by Democrats, January 11, 2009 17:21:08
True, MCA and UMNO are the biggest cover up artisit of all time.
Why ask people to make a stand while they themselves have not clarify where it stands.
It was sad Husam wasn't quick enough to counter Khairy during the ceramah to ask them to quote their stand during the show.
Then KJ would be peeing in his pants.
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written by HHKim, January 11, 2009 17:38:38
Dear fellow KT voters:
One thing is very distinctively clear to us Malaysians - we have to vote BN out. There is no other choice so to speak. Enough of all the nonsense they have created for all Malaysians that far.
If you come across any MCA guys in this by-election campaign, tell them to go home or go back to KL to suck eggs. MCA is good for nothing. MCA is only good for parroting for UMNO under the leadership of Ong Tee Keat, a useless and spineless leader who falsely claimed to represent the chinese Malaysians. He represents nobody except himself and his pockets. I label him as a traitor to all chinese communities.
For the sake of whole Malaysia, I would urge the Kuala Trengganu raayat to vote for CHANGE - Change that we have been looking for since the recent political development. We must send this message loud and clear to the BN government that the raayat has finally awaken up and realize the mismanagement of this country by the corrupted BN leaders over these years.
Enough Is Enough - and please send the BN people to South China Sea for good!!
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written by Raja Petra, January 11, 2009 17:44:22
hellosunshine, read the article again, slowly, before you comment. Or do you need me to translate it for you? The only bullshit I see is your comment: "anything can happen when PAS, UMNO and PKR muslims make a pact." Do you read me saying: anything can happen if DAP, MCA, Gerakan and the Chinese in PKR make a pact. You are a racist. You should join Umno.
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written by Milo, January 11, 2009 18:08:55
kl-wong:Why would a chinese or an indian afraid of Hudud Law if you are clean and good?
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kl, You should in fact ask why PAS is afraid of the principles enshined in the constitution and the need to change it.Secularism is not equal to "anti-religion", rather it allows for freedom of religious practice. So what's wrong with this arrangement? Why is PAS so adamant in changing this formula if they have no intention of imposing Islamic tenets on others? If they do, should we support it?
It is not about being "afraid", rather is it about whether it is right or wrong to impose hudud federally which will affect all who interact in the public sphere. PAS leaders of today's may be moderate, but there are no guarantee their future leaders won't turn taliban-like. It only require one term where such leaders take control, Malaysia can be finished permanently. Look at how we destroyed the english language! With the protection accorded to non-muslims in the constitution destroyed, there is no telling how far non-muslims will be affected under such leadership. If the country is in choas, even the muslims will face problem. We should not be carried away just as we are eager to support PAS today.
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written by Raja Petra, January 11, 2009 18:17:17
Milo, PAS said, so many, many times, that any changes MUST be according to the Constitution. Which part of MUST do you not understand? And I do not wish to even respond to the rest of your statement. How old are you anyway?
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written by hellosunshine, January 11, 2009 18:28:10
It therefore leaves this matter to MCA and The Star to handle. Then it would be the Chinese ‘kafirs’ from MCA and not the Muslims from Umno who are ‘anti-Islam’.
RPK,
MCA/The Star was referring to the hudud issue, right? Now, which part of 'anti-Islam' you were not referring to? I may not agree with many articles in The Star but this time, they did voice the non Muslims' concerns as with Karpal Singh.
Oh, I am a racist for raising my concern on hudud? Wow! That's news to me. Seems like you can dish it out but you can't take some criticism or an opposing view.
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written by tmf, January 11, 2009 18:29:21
Dear fello bloggers, why keep talking about HUDUD and every other things that is currently academic?
Just focus on the ills of BN/UMNO such as corruption which everyone of us must have suffered one way or another, failed education system, racial discrimination, police abuse, questionable judiciary, nepotism, croniyism, ISA and many other existing issues under the current BN administration?
Do not be defensive, go on attack mood, CHARGE!
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written by lynn, January 11, 2009 18:30:43
Can Michael Chick post here a mock funeral for MCA & The Star between 26th Jan & 9th Feb?
As long as the funeral for both traitors of the Chinese community are held within the 15 days of CNY, it shld be effective. Ha.ha. Drop dead, you Ma Cauhai Assh*les!
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written by clarity, January 11, 2009 18:32:43
Ya,RPK. But one thing I don't understand. PAS is obviously gaining a lot of popularity in the country to the extent that they even have to make special provisions for non malays who wish to join PAS. So if other races arejoining PAS how come in KT the malay votes are split 50-50? I cannot beleive there are more crooked umno supporters in KT than honest and religious malays in KT.
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written by Fuminari, January 11, 2009 18:39:15
KT chinese,yes.give ur vote to umno be end so that u n ur future generations would be called "PENDATANG"!!!
yes.give ur vote to umno be end so that even a petit issue concerning pork n babi could be blown up to such a big fuss!!!
yes.give ur vote to umno be end so that u n ur future generations would be forever treated as second or even third class!!!
yes.give ur vote to umno be end so that u n ur future generations would be screwed by the umnoputra goons at their whims n fancies!!!
yes.give ur vote to umno be end so that even u n ur future generations could not even hav the freedom to learn,to study !!!
yes,give ur vote to umno be end so that u n ur future generation could go to college n university only if u are rich enough!!!
yes,give ur vote to umno be end so that u n ur future generation could only practise only what umno dictates!!!
yes,give ur vote to umno be end so that ur mother tongue issue would be used by umno to force u to suppoprt them in power so that they could rob,steal n sodomise politically u for ever!!!
yes,give ur vote to umno be end so that ur language could survive only at their mercy,n umno would hold u at ransom for ever!!
yes,give ur vote to umno be end so that u n ur future generation would be subjected to police corruption n brutality,n ISA if they want to protect u !!!
yes,give ur vote to umno be end so that development is the task of the rakyat n not the government!!!
yes,give ur vote to umno be end so that they would steal n rob from u big time n return chicken feed to u only during election or bye election,worse;u hav to make sure the umno goon win to realise the chicken feed!!!
use ur vote on 17-1-2009 n tell them straight on their mo.ther f.ucking faces,ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!n give them the BOOT!!!
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written by Raja Petra, January 11, 2009 18:46:46
hellosunshine said: "Oh, I am a racist for raising my concern on hudud?"
hellosunshine, read what you wrote. You said: "anything can happen when PAS, UMNO and PKR muslims make a pact."
RACIST!
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written by Raja Petra, January 11, 2009 18:48:21
clarity, Umno got 50% of the Malay vote and the opposition the other 50% the last three elections -- 1999, 2004 and 2008. I wrote about this many times.
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written by cheekhiaw, January 11, 2009 19:53:26
Chinese in KT, There is no horse involved in this election. Not even a dead horse. So let MCA or whoever else flog all they want. Your choice is between a decent mule and a stealing ass. Ride that decent mule while we seek a horse!
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written by advocatusdiaboli, January 11, 2009 19:53:57
Dear RPK whatever it is lets make sure PAS wins this time. HUDUD or no HUDUD is the side issue actually that the mainstream papers are playing up. Lets drop these BN fellas into the South China Seas.
p.s. wouldn't this cause an ecological disaster? Imagine all the filth in the pristine South China Seas.
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written by KKchan, January 11, 2009 20:15:26
Hudud is a non-issue for me and all politicians must know that, including those MPs from DAP. It can only be implemented if there is a very dramatic change in our demographics. And it requires an amendment to the Constitution. It is a bogeyman raised by UMNO and unfortunately PR MPs fall for the bait. For PAS it's implementation is its creed and it knows hudud cannot be implemented. It raises it once in a while to show that its Islamic nature.
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written by Milo, January 11, 2009 20:28:06
RPK: PAS said, so many, many times, that any changes MUST be according to the Constitution.
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To me, this sort of statements from PAS do not reduce our concern one bit. The issue is on the PAS's aim, not just about the constitution. What they say would be like DAP declares a vision that we rule Malaysia using Christian Biblical principles IF the constitution permits and the majority agrees. It may be academic as this possibility is remote, but technically their vision is the same as the PAS's position. Would Muslims support DAP if such a stand is taken? On the same count, why would non-muslims not object to such a stand taken by PAS? To sum up the whole thing, PAS is basically saying: Okay, we will make Malaysia an Islamic State when we are IN A POSITION to change the constituion, as then we could make the change legally. The fact is the constitution can be changed with sufficient support in Parliament; and WILL BE changed if this is the declared position of the party in power. And why should we support any party with such a position? I understand we are fighting a war in KT, but it would be highly unfortunate if we are not even allowed to qualify our support for PAS! btw, there is no evidence that age and the ability to reason has any co-relationship. As a case in point, there are plenty of dumb ass veterans in UMNO!
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written by asguard, January 11, 2009 20:31:29
MCA a party only knows how to make a issue out of everything that's sanctions by its master UMNO...!
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written by hellosunshine, January 11, 2009 20:38:12
If I am a racist for highlighting the potential of Muslims from PAS, UMNO and PKR making a pact (which PAS had tried to do with UMNO) then I would call you a RELIGIOUS BIGOT for calling Chinese, whether MCA or not, in a deragatory term of kafirs.
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written by Milo, January 11, 2009 20:39:43
"And why should we support any party with such a position?" should read "And why should we support any STAND of a party which is against our interest?
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written by kl_wong, January 11, 2009 20:49:09
Hi Milo, I do understand your concerned statement. Once upon a time, I too has the same thinking like yours. But for me, now, we better stop the corrupted leaders first before we start to worry on the hudud laws ( if PAS can implement it).Peace bro.
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written by ibabonma, January 11, 2009 21:01:37
Generally, it is settled among most voters, to implement the Hudud laws requires the support of the non-Muslims voters. So, why talk of hudud now?
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written by clarity, January 11, 2009 22:01:43
Sorry RPK, but I've only been your follower sincelast year if you check on your records. And I appreciate what you are doing. Thanks
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written by No nonsense, January 11, 2009 22:35:41
If only PAS can assure the chinese and other races in the country in black and white that hudud is meant only for the muslims then I totally agree to it. Why cant Pas be abit more clear about it and let the other races feel more at ease and support you? Just put it in black and white and you have cleared yourself for being extreme. Think carefully what you will gain and nothing to lose. There will be no more suspicions between muslims and non-muslims. We all will work together without any hindrances and bring peace and prosperity to all. No corruption, no hatred, no jealousy, no crime. whatelse do we want? Hopefully Pas will make known their objectives.
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written by Milo, January 11, 2009 22:36:29
Hi kl-wong, no issue, we are on the same side. In all my postings, I have made clear we should support PAS in KT. But in supporting, we should not be blind to the long term issue, of which the hudud issue is of very significant and valid consideration. There is nothing wrong with giving a "qualified" support to PAS. Otherwise, their win would be taken as non-muslims supporting the Islamic State or hudud. This sort of political spin should not be encourage, especially if we can help it. A qualified support stance help to prevent spin later on. Unfortunately, not everybody think long term. Cheers!
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written by mulut murai, January 11, 2009 23:01:47
RPK must already tearing whatever hair is left on his head.
Milo was saying;
"What they say would be like DAP declares a vision that we rule Malaysia using Christian Biblical principles IF the constitution permits and the majority agrees"
This would mean a time when the majority...say 80%...of Malaysians are Christians, and DAP won 70% of the seats to actually do that.
If that happens I don't think the 20% non-Christians (I mean Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus etc) can object or reject.
In any case, if Malaysia is 80% Christians, it may also means Christianisty has become so attractive that the non-Christian Malaysians would embrace Christianity in droves; thus the idea of a Christianity based constitution is acceptable to the bulk of the country. PAS/Umno/PKR will be what Indian Progresssive Party is today (no offence to Indians), can make noise but can affect little.
The Christian majority state can also happen if the non Christian population migrated elsewhere leaving the Christians as the....duhhhh....majority.
Do you and your fellow primary schoolers really understand how democracy/ rule of majority works at all?
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written by Milo, January 12, 2009 00:36:12
With 70-80% Christians, does the US constitution permit them to declare the country a Christian state ruled by Biblical laws? In Thailand, where the vast majority are Buddhists, is the constitution declared by the winning party to be based on buddhist principles? btw, what you just described is generally called Communism by adults!
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written by Milo, January 12, 2009 00:59:16
99.8% of Turkey's population are Muslims, but the country is a secular country.
The Constitution provides for freedom of religion, and the Government generally respects this right in practice; however, the Government imposes some restrictions on Muslim and other religious groups and on Muslim religious expression in government offices and state-run institutions, including universities, usually for the stated reason of preserving the secular state, and distance of state to all kinds of beliefs. The Constitution establishes the country as a secular state and provides for freedom of belief, freedom of worship, and the private dissemination of religious ideas.
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written by Siapabohong, January 12, 2009 03:12:06
Islam is actually a beautiful religion and a religion for all, as we all are created by God and we are called to glorify Him. However in Malaysia, Islam is perceived as a Malay religion and it get worst with the many one-sided government policies and frequently relate them to the religion, thus the non-Malays look at the religion negatively. Further more a big number of Malays take upon them that the religion is solely belong to them even look upon the converts as secondary to them. With all these, the religion is being look upon as ugly and fearfully. PAS and PKR should really do something positively to clear the bad image of the religion as what the present regime has planted it since the day of merdeka. Show and proof to the non-Malays or non-Muslim that Islam is really a beautiful religion and a religion for all, a religion that seek friendship, human brotherhood,non-discrimination in terms of race, peace, equality and fairness solely to the glory of God. This is the task PAS and PKR must do in order the non-Malays or non-Muslims can accept the doctorine of Islam without much reservation. You cannot really blame the non-Malays or non-Muslims for their reservation of the Hudud Law or any other laws in Islam when they do not really see the beauty of the religion. Instead of blaming them the Muslim must blame themselves for their own limitation and inabilty to convince the non-Malays or non-Muslim to look at the religion positively.
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written by LFLee, January 12, 2009 06:04:58
Dear Pete,
I am concern after seeing posts by so many MT reader here who still think Hudud is an issue and therefore Chinese should reject PAS - posting that reject PAS
received many 'agree' vote. The MSM influence on these readers is poisoning them too deep... until they reject anything that say PAS, or 'Muslim'. People who afraid of PAS ruled state, really, please go to these State and talk to the Chinese there, see if they afraid of PAS, hate PAS like you hate UMNO? DAP used to organize day trip to PAS ruled state and many who come back from those trip realize that their knowledge about PAS ruled States from the MSM are
twisted. The Chinese live happily there!
Please, don't you guys know MSM are controlled?
Dear Pete, looks like we still have a lot of work to do to clear those poisoned mind. People, worst come to worst, think about this: You already gave BN 52 yrs, and shit is what you've got; Give PAS a term la, OK?
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written by LFLee, January 12, 2009 06:15:59
People who argue:
support PAS in KT = support hudud Islamic state
think about the even worst case:
support BN in KT = support Najib become PM = support Racist = support corruption = support yourself being called Pendating = support unequal treatment to yourself = ...
You make your choice.
A DAP PKR PAS is a good check-and-balance alliance, rest assured.
or you really like 100000000*UMNO (MIC GERAKAN MCA etc.)/1000000000 BN?
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written by ireneyow, January 12, 2009 08:17:57
What is more important now in Malaysia is to STOP this corrupted BN (UMNO, MCA and MIC) from ruling Malaysia. WHY are we so worried of HUDUD law whereby CORRUPTUION is Malaysia's No.1 issue not HUDUD LAW. "PLEASE" Kuala Trengganu Folks "DO NOT BE CARRIED AWAY BY THE STAR REPORT." STAR report for their Bosses (BN) and not report of the general public opinion.
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written by Rhan, January 12, 2009 09:29:24
LFLee,
My choice is to reject both corruption and hudud, can’t I?
The Malay should and must reject PAS if they keep talking about Hudud and Islamic State.
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written by carribeanking7, January 12, 2009 10:44:19
Its not like flogging a dead horse, its like to resiscitate a horse that never lived in the first place, let me go a step further, even if UMNO, PAS and PKR miraculously there will still be insufficient to call for HUdud to be implemented.This is not even taking into account many lawmakers within PKR are non-
Muslim, It is not a matter of who rules ....Hudud can even be implemented now, anything can be implemented not just Hudud, all it takes is 1/4 of parliament (55 lawmakers) to call a motion and 2/3rds to approve, it becomes law.
Has PAS called for such a motion ? the answer is NO.
Those who are making a big ado about nothing, are silent or I daresay ignorant about a constitutional ammendment made in 1988 that is already law that is grossly unfair to non-Muslims, does anyone of you checken littles even know which article I am talking about ? When Lim Kit Siang called for it to be repealed in 2005, where were all the champions of a secular state ?
here we see some making big noises over something that has almost zero to nil chance of being ratified ,but are deafeningly silent or ignorant about an unfair amendment that we have been living with for the last 20 years.
Does anyone here know which article I am talking about ?
VKM
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written by DezMalaysia, January 12, 2009 10:44:45
Bastard Wong Chun Wai again !?
Getting fed up with him...
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written by Milo, January 12, 2009 16:46:22
The main reason why the hudud issue kept coming up is not because some non-muslims declare they are against the concept (at least in this blog), but those who are stupid enough to keep defending PAS with nonsensical reasons.
If PAS (as some commentators mentioned here in their defence said) kept sticking to a vision of an Islamic State or hudud that have no chance of succeed at all (a dead horse), can we conclude that PAS leaders are either stubborn, stupid or both! How can we put in high esteem leaders who hold on to goals that have no chance of being realised!!? If indeed their vision is realisable, then what's wrong if the affected people voice their concern? Is this the concept of democracy promoted by Pakatan???
Most (like myself) are not even against PAS on the overall, and still support voting for them in KT; we are just stating that we are against the conversion of the current secular to an Islamic state. Some of the comments are so blind that it gives us the impression their support are also just as blind. Is this the type of support PAS is calling for? The constant uncalled for attack on those who expressed they are not favouring the Islamic state is the REAL fertilizer that kept the issue growing.
Basically, these blind supporters are the ones who shoot Pakatan in the foot! They talk as though we cannot differentiate between facts and the spins (after being in MT for so long). Wake up, before you drive these supporters over the edge!
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written by Milo, January 12, 2009 16:58:53
LFLee, just because you are not concern about hudud does not mean it is not a concern. There are plenty (nearly about 50% in KT alone!) of voters who don't give a damn about the corruption in BN, are they right too?
Just as the blind support for BN has led to the nation's decay, the same can apply in the case of Pakatan.
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written by Milo, January 12, 2009 17:23:54
Yesterday, PAS, DAP and PKR made history by agreeing that any policy decision must be made through consensus. A simple majority is not enough. All three -- PAS, DAP and PKR -- have to agree on whatever policy matters.
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Anyway, the issue is settled with the agreement.
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written by Futurist, January 12, 2009 17:28:01
Hello guys, how many times has RPK mentioned that PAS alone cannot implement Hudud? Why keep harping on the issue? Enough that the BN goons are blowing up the issue out of proportions as they have nothing else to campaign about.
Think of getting the KT folks to see the importance of having the PR candidate elected. Convince them the merits of having a party that sees for the lot of the downtrodden. KT folks, it's time to send the BN to the deep. DO your part.
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written by Milo, January 12, 2009 17:35:15
Futurist,
Read the post immediately above. You are the only one left harping on the issue!
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